Is It Helpful to Trash 5E?

"5E is a trash system!"

I see that comment so often in YouTube comments and elsewhere. I get it, you trash the system on the way out the door for other games. Once you buy into another system, you torch the one you walked away from, or, in many people's feelings, Wizards and D&D walked away from them. There is no shortage of changes, new edition grief, sanitizing monsters, and other changes in D&D when none of that needed to be made.

"So, I am out of here. Never coming back. I am done. A trash system anyway."

I feel the pain and hurt; I have been here.

5E works fine for games like Shadowdark or Tales of Aragosa. They are 5E-based systems without all the complexity, work very "close to the metal," and mimic a BX-type experience. People love these, so it is not really 5E that is the problem here.

I get the feeling the problems with 5E are based on a few factors:

1. The game's complexity.
2. A lack of lethality.
3. Slow play, especially at higher levels.
4. Wizards of the Coast and the changes made to D&D 2024.
5. The OGL Disaster.
6. Platform dependency and a lack of downloadable PDFs.
7. The slow trickle of rules patches and expansion content in every book.
8. D&D 2024 was designed for a failed VTT.

Those are my big six. Granted, some people like the complexity and the deeper character builds, so this is more a matter of personal preference. I made a cleric in Tales of the Valiant who can use the same weapons as her goddess: a longbow, spear, and mace. That is cool, but I can't do that in BX or 1E since those systems are too strict, and Shadowdark won't let me either. I would need to houserule it in those systems, and in ToV, I just did it without needing to houserule a thing or get GM permission.

A lack of lethality is a problem in D&D and ToV. This is one I will give the haters, and even I need to mod the game to up the lethality and danger. It is not a hard change to make, but this is one I need to make to keep the game feeling dangerous and exciting.

Slow play? I gotta give the haters this one, too. Though ToV reduces monster hit points and makes them hit harder, so they at least tried to address this problem here. This is more a lack of playtesting on Wizards' part, and Kobold Press made adjustments to the math to address this issue. Another part of this lies in the complexity of the characters and in people not knowing the rules or the class they play.

If you take more than a minute or two deciding what your character is doing during a turn, I will skip your character and declare they are standing there doing nothing. Get off your phone, pay attention, and be thinking of your next move while the other players are taking theirs. Slow play is a behavioral issue that can be addressed by forcing players to skip their turns if they don't know what to do.

Sorry. Pay attention. Show respect to others. If this makes you TPK, you should have never been on your phone. Your character was on their phone and wasn't paying attention, so you all died. My games are not "second screen entertainment."

Look up that term. TV shows and movies are now being filmed assuming people will be on their phones during them and not pay attention.

Not in my game. It was hard enough getting six of you here at the same time; one player isn't going to disrespect everyone and be on their phone, and then have to be filled in when their turn comes up. If you didn't pay attention, no one is going to fill you in.

Part of what makes other games so attractive is that they punish this behavior. Shadowdark's torch timer is the best example. D&D, by not calling it out or forcing players to be on their phones or computers for character sheets, encourages it.

Numbers four through six are all Wizards of the Coast. They did not need to remove the humanoid monsters because orcs and goblins would have their feelings hurt; that is just stupid. They reduced options just to appease someone's feelings, which didn't need to happen, and it shows disrespect for the game's history and canon. Tales of the Valiant keeps the humanoid monsters, so that is the game I play.

And Tales of the Valiant allows me to own the PDFs. This is a huge reason I play ToV instead of D&D 2024; I can put the PDFs on my tablet and head out. I don't need to be subscribed to anything.

Number seven is a huge problem: how the books come out, patch problems, and then the books after that patch those problems, plus other issues. If you do not keep up with the books, your game is broken, and you will never have access to the latest character options and fixes.

Tales of the Valiant made many fixes and is a newer game, so at this point, it can be played with a few core books, and everyone is okay. One of the worst parts of playing D&D 2014 was needing Tasha's to be around at all times as a rules and class patch, and that book introduced things I did not want in my game. Even if you are sticking with 2014 today, you still need to keep that book around.

ToV is one set of rules, and the classes work out of the book.

Number eight is a good one. The D&D 2024 ranger has all the soft exploration and roleplay powers removed, since they didn't work well on the failed VTT project, Sigil. ToV's ranger sticks to 2014's design and keeps the soft, roleplay powers around. I like my rangers to do ranger things in exploration, and not just be off-tank DPS. This is another reason I play ToV over D&D. I bet you an expansion book will come out patching those ranger powers back into D&D 2024, and we will be forced to carry it around. Well, not me since I skipped D&D 2024 and chose ToV.

But I get people's anger on the way out the door. It is understandable to buy something and have it not work, or to find a better option elsewhere. Tell that to all of us who trusted D&D 4E's design team. But to players who choose other options still inside 5E, like ToV, Level Up A5E, Shadowdark, or other 5E-based systems, trashing all of 5E is not helpful or positive.

I have my problems with D&D, and a few are still in 5E.

If you are having fun with D&D 2024, great! I am happy.

We should be playing our games and lovingour hobbies.

But I like to stay positive and be a helpful voice, working through these issues in my blogs for people to read and make their own choices, and to give them thoughtful discussion on how they can work through problems they may see as issues, too.